QPR 0, Norwich City 0

Mark Bunn saves Adel Taarabt's penalty. Picture: Paul Chesterton / Focus Images Mark Bunn saves Adel Taarabt's penalty. Picture: Paul Chesterton / Focus Images

Saturday, February 2, 2013
2:58 PM

Goalkeeper Mark Bunn saved a second-half penalty from Adel Taarabt to earn Norwich City a valuable Premier League point from their lunchtime kick-off at Loftus Road.

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Referee Jon Moss awarded Queens Park Rangers the spot-kick after 56 minutes when he decided Bunn had brought down Jamie Mackie as the striker pursued a poor backpass from Javier Garrido, and the official showed Bunn the yellow card.

But the keeper dived to his left to keep out Taarabt’s kick and the Canaries held out despite being on the back foot for much of the second period.

Rangers keeper Julio Cesar made second-half saves from Wes Hoolahan, Bradley Johnson and Robert Snodgrass, but City’s opportunities against the bottom side were limited.

Norwich lost Anthony Pilkington in the first half to what looked like a hamstring problem, but new signing Luciano Becchio was not given his debut until three minutes from time.

City will be happier with the point than QPR, still with just two league victories all season and only one of them at home. But Norwich themselves have now gone eight league games without a victory.

City, wearing their black change kit, fielded an unchanged eleven after the 1-1 draw against Tottenham in midweek, but Becchio, the striker who arrived from Leeds on transfer deadline day, was named among the substitutes in place of David Fox.

Rangers showed four changes from the team that drew 0-0 with Manchester City, including new signings Christopher Samba and Andros Townsend in their eleven and recalling Jamie Mackie and Shaun Wright-Phillips.

Out went Nedum Onuoha and the injured Loic Remy, while Esteban Granero was dropped to the bench and defender Ryan Nelsen left the club this week to become head coach of Toronto FC in Canada.

Another new signing, midfielder Jermaine Jenas, was included among the substitutes.

Taarabt was into the action in the opening minute but fired well wide, only for City to create a better opening in the fourth minute when Snodgrass crossed to the near post but Hoolahan’s touch flew over the angle of post and bar.

Taarabt went much closer on 10 minutes with a determined run that took him past two challenges before he struck a low drive just past Bunn’s right-hand post.

Taarabt had a third effort blocked at close range by Garrido as he continued to enjoy plenty of early possession, and it was his close control that set up another chance for Mackie, but the lone striker pulled his shot across the face of goal.

City were forced into an early change when Pilkington, who appeared to have a hamstring problem, made way for Elliott Bennett, who was quickly into the action with a smart interception but floated his cross behind the goal.

With 27 minutes gone, there was another opening for the Canaries as Hoolahan made space to cross from the right, but Snodgrass’ header lacked power and was straight at goalkeeper Cesar.

Garrido’s cross then found the head of Holt, but he too directed his effort straight at Cesar.

City forced a couple of corners in quick succession, Bassong heading off target from the second.

As Rangers pushed forward, Wright-Phillips got the better of Garrido but then slice his shot a long way wide.

Mbia was shown the yellow card six minutes before the break for a foul on Elliott Bennett that gave City a free-kick five yards outside the Rangers area, but Snodgrass curled a tame effort wide.

Turner, with blood on his face, was ordered off by referee Moss to seek attention and change his shirt before returning shortly afterwards.

An inswinging corner from Taarabt had Bunn stretching and he appeared to tip it over the bar, but referee Moss awarded a goal-kick.

• Half-time: Queens Park Rangers 0, Norwich City 0

Turner was back on the field with no ill-effects and Rangers had the first opportunity when a shove by Garrido on Wright-Phillips gave them a free-kick on the right-hand corner of the Norwich area. Taarabt took it and City escaped as the ball drifted across the face of the goal with neither side able to make contact.

A foul by Tettey on Townsend gave the hosts another dead-ball opportunity. Taarabt’s kick was helped on by a Mackie backheel but straight at Bunn.

Garrido was booked for a body check on Wright-Whillips after the winger had given Elliott Bennett the slip.

City had their best opening yet on 53 minutes when Cesar made a fine save to keep out Hoolahan’s first-time touch from a Snodgrass cross.

Desperate defending by Fabio denied Holt a far-post header as the Canaries enjoyed a bright spell, then Holt was just unable to make clean contact with another cross into the six-yard box.

Rangers replaced Wright-Phillips with Zamora and immediately wasted a golden chance to go ahead from the penalty spot.

Garrido’s poor backpass left Bunn short and as Mackie nipped in, the keeper was adjudged to have brought him down.

Referee Moss booked Bunn but when Taarabt took the 56th-minute spot-kick, Bunn dived to his left to make a fine save.

Tarrabt, trying to make amends, curled a free-kick over the top from just outside the penalty area, then forced Bunn into another save from a swerving shot.

It was Cesar’s turn to shine again as he beat away a powerful long-range attempt from Johnson.

Tettey joined his team-mates in the book for a trip on Traore and from the resulting free-kick by Taarabt, Holt hooked away a header by Samba.

Rangers replaced Mbia with new signing Jenas with just over 20 minutes left, and they made their final change when Ben Haim replaced Fabio.

Bunn saved a low drive from Townsend after Bassong had given the ball away, and Hill headed wide from the resulting corner.

Snodgrass lifted the pressure with a swerving effort from more than 20 yards that Cesar turned round the post.

Turner was given a ridiculous booking nine minutes from time when all he appeared to do was head a bouncing ball away from Mackie.

Jenas took the free-kick that followed but couldn’t find a way through the black shirts.

Zamora headed wide with a decent chance as Rangers looked for a late winner.

Hoolahan teed up Holt for a shot but Cesar was right behind it.

As the home side broke, Bassong was shown the yellow card for a block on Mackie, but was back to head the resulting free-kick over the bar.

With four minutes left, Townsend let fly from long range and Bunn dived to his left to make a fine save. Hill headed wide from the resulting corner.

Becchio was finally given his debut as the clock ticked round to 87 minutes, Hoolahan making way for the new signing.

A foul by Snodgrass on Taarabt meant another free-kick to defend as the game entered five minutes of time added on, but Derry’s kick failed to clear the first man.

• QPR: Cesar; Fabio da Silva (Ben Haim, 74), Samba, Hill, Traore; Derry, Mbia (Jenas, 69); Wright-Phillips (Zamora, 54), Taarabt, Townsend; Mackie. Subs (not used): Green, Park, Granero, Bothroyd.

• Norwich City: Bunn; Russell Martin, Turner, Bassong, Garrido; Tettey, Johnson; Snodgrass, Hoolahan (Becchio, 87), Pilkington (Elliott Bennett, 24); Holt. Subs (not used): Camp, Whittaker, Ryan Bennett, Howson, Jackson.

• Referee: Jon Moss (West Riding)

• Attendance: 17,543 (1,617 City fans)

• Bookings: QPR: Mbia (39). City: Garrido (52), Bunn (56), Tettey (67), Turner (81), Bassong (85)

50 comments

  • I would have taken a point before KO and certainly cannot complain after the game either. Workman like describes it well. Slightly concerned by how Taarabt ran the show. Would take him off their hands when they go down that's for sure. Benno also showed why he's NOT first choice unfortunately. Not strong enough in the tackle for me and didn't produce much going forward either. Jury obviously still out on Becchio but I hope his very first touch in a Norwich shirt is not typical because it went further than I can kick it and when under no pressure at all! If we had the likes of Huckerby on our books we would have won this game. Even so their keeper had to make a contender for save of the season to stop Hoolahan scoring what would have been a very good goal. Chippy, Kamara has not got his paper work done yet so was not available. I know this posts sounds negative but it wasn't a terrible 0-0 and we did show that we can mix it up a bit with some big strong players and we kept a clean sheet away from home so well done boys. I did enjoy my first away day of the season and QPR only got 1 point which like waclor said, is as important as us getting 1. OTBC IHWT

    Report this comment

    baguio

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Agree with Preston & Swiss. Holty has never, ever not given his best for the team. The last time he was put in a position of not getting many chances to score & being used as a right-winger\drudge was at Nottingham Florist. Under Calderwood.

    Report this comment

    Mad Brewer

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • I'm happy with that. Solid City performance including a penalty save. Decent away point. Becchio needed to be on much sooner. I'd have brought him on @ half-time, But that would've meant making an earlier substitution + we're not allowed to do that. It says so in the Hughton rule-book.

    Report this comment

    Timbo

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • He might spout brown stuff with nearly every post but Gedward has a point this time regarding all the multiple posts on this sight. Post, Log off, Log on, Carry on, No multiple posts! Simples!

    Report this comment

    baguio

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Agree with Preston & Swiss. Holty has never, ever not given his best for the team. The last time he was put in a position of not getting many chances to score & being used as a right-winger\drudge was at Nottingham Florist. Under Calderwood.

    Report this comment

    Mad Brewer

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Billy, I feel that Holt's days under Hughton are numbered as I don't think he has the pace to play in this formation. He does the best that he can and gives us so much, but I just don't think that it suits him. I would like Hughton to be more flexible sometimes over substitutions, but I do think that we will stay up. Don't forget that the beginnings of that run before Christmas began with performances like this. Hopefully, we will then get some signings in the summer that will set the world alight... Here's dreaming...

    Report this comment

    Preston Canary

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Brew Much the same applies with Windows XL....open 'Word', and type away.. On your first 'Save As' Give the File a name...Something like 'MB Feb 13'. Then you can open and add at will...Copy....Paste....etc... Good Luck

    Report this comment

    Pa Snipps

    Tuesday, February 5, 2013

  • I agree, Preston. It seems the Norwich from the previous 3 seasons had settled into a mindset of no fear and play to win, even if on paper the odds were against us. This spirit meant players like Holt, Martin, Tierney, Lappin, Surman and Fox would play out of their skins because they had belief. Whereas it seems now they've been reduced to what they were before Norwich, with the exception perhaps of Martin, they seem to lack the technical ability and quality to do what they used to, maybe because there's less motivation. It seems under this era it's important to get the quality of the player, rather than the quality of the person. I can see Holt being replaced in the summer, and maybe even being dropped for Becchio this season.

    Report this comment

    Billy

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Can members please refrain from multiple postings. Many thanks. Ged - Admin.

    Report this comment

    Ged Steroo

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • I`ve tried that baguio, honest! As often as not the message disappears forever. When you say log off, do you mean go back to the home page, come out of EDP or log off altogether?? I am in a distressed state now `cos I fear I may have incurred the displeasure of Red Stooge. My Hero.

    Report this comment

    Mad Brewer

    Monday, February 4, 2013

  • A good point, but i am not so much worried about the place that QPR have in the bottom three more the other two places, There are about 6 teams bidding for those two places and really hope we do not fill one! A win soon would settle my nerves.

    Report this comment

    MBA Marine

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • BREW. If it's any help----I work with Windows 7....I open up Libre Office....Text Document....Type my comment....Copy ….Save(into file)......Open EDP....story to comment on....Log in....paste....submit.....Log out of EDP.....Clear as MUD!..... You will have a copy of your comments on file, should you need them to re-submit.

    Report this comment

    Pa Snipps

    Monday, February 4, 2013

  • Pa, thanks for your kind attempt to help, but I really am a total dunce with IT\computers! Mrs MB just about set me up with a home hub & taught me how to log on. I discovered enough just to do postings and it sort of stalled there! I need a mentor on site to get me up to speed. I think I have Windows XL and a Word Processing thing called Open Office, but I`ve never used it. I could nearly use Word. Nearly.

    Report this comment

    Mad Brewer

    Tuesday, February 5, 2013

  • Agree with Preston & Swiss. Holty has never, ever not given his best for the team. The last time he was put in a position of not getting many chances to score & being used as a right-winger\drudge was at Nottingham Florist. Under Calderwood.

    Report this comment

    Mad Brewer

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Completely agree Preston, wouldn't surprise me if there was a lot of movement in the summer, which is a shame because our 'Paul Lambert squad' have been our heroes in getting us here, but I guess we need to welcome the new era now under Hughton which inevitably means that squad will in time be completely replaced. Got to feel for players like Holt, Fox, Surman, Tierney and Jackson who look likely to fade into the shadows, after being instrumental to us gaining our premier league status.

    Report this comment

    Billy

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Brew, re: little Benno " my case rests". Becchio wasn't on for long but I like what I see. It's was so important to keep the 11 point gap between QPR and us. A good day.

    Report this comment

    Lobbo

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Negative from Hughton , Becchio should have been on much earlier . Great performance from Bunn . Should have been 3 points but got to be happy with 1 and a clean sheet good for confidence .

    Report this comment

    mjc75

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Greetings Lobbo, ol` pal! Yes, little Benno did not cover himself in glory. Mind you, playing him wide left is a bit like asking Wessi to lead the line-dancing at Ian Paisley`s birthday party. (Timbo might like that one;-) Ref Morison; he is not yet recovered from that last injury. Thought Bunn had his best game for us - Catching the ball where he once might have punched it & some good saves. We excel at giving the ball away sometimes. Lack of forward impetus from midfield makes us easy for the opposition to keep out. Brilliant use of Becchio. Not. Still, it`s a point. Another 12.....

    Report this comment

    Mad Brewer

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Anyone know how bad the Pilkington injury is? And where on earth was Kamara? Please give 2 up front a try Hughton, and make your subs earlier! Valuable point nevertheless.

    Report this comment

    chirpy

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • An essential point away from home against one of the relegation teams, but where was the quality. Unfortunately today we had nobody who could tackle, pass or cross the ball and it showed in a very ordinary match between two very ordinary teams. We must try and show better quality when we have the ball.

    Report this comment

    VictorM

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Another massive point away from home at a relegation candidate - and it's almost more important that we denied them two points. Huge hard fought result with great commitment, well done team and especially Mark Bunn, deserved MotM in my opinion.

    Report this comment

    SussexYellow

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • That....frankly, was 2 points thrown away by QPR. We fluked that one!! We gave away far too many stupid free kicks in our own 3rd. Too many unnecessary bookings. Holt kept straying out to the wing instead of being a danger in the centre. Once again no plan "B", Rednapp subs early and tries to change things. Hughton? Nothing until the 85th minute. Far too late. We needed fresh legs and Becciho out there, from 70 minutes. We got neither from Mr Inflexible.

    Report this comment

    Algarve Canary

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Whatever the quality of the game,its another valuble poit in the bag

    Report this comment

    Albert Cooper

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Holt is still a hero in my book. A very solid shift in defence at corners and set pieces and a very unselfish player trying to provide opportunities for his team up front. I think that Holty and Snods have previous with the Honourable Guild of Prem Refs and so will not get much.

    Report this comment

    Swiss Canary

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • he impression I had, was that the players ran themselves into the ground. Hoolahan chases every thing, and should easily be our man of the match. Bunn was at his 'ruddy' best, Holt did what Holt does. Snodgrass got his head down and gave it his all. My only complaint is that the tactics employed for this game were RUBBISH!.... When will this manager and his advisers get to grips with the complete picture, stop worrying about their TV image, and play their hard working staff in their natural best positions....Give the substitutes a few minutes to get into the game. Then we can stop throwing things at the cat and enjoy the possible!

    Report this comment

    Pa Snipps

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • A committed performance not helped by an overweight ref giving qpr a free kick at every opportunity and a yellow card for a norwich player if he could. Never known such fickle fans as qpr. What frustrates me is CH's complete lack of tactical guile and desire for attacking play. Why does he not make changes as the game unfolds?? We could have won this game today but CH does not gamble and I'm not a fan of that, much prefer the "win or die" approach that brought the best out of our players during the last 3 seasons. Nevertheless, a good point. It is our home games against saints, reading etc. that are key. OTBC

    Report this comment

    The Gaffer

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Billy, sorry but I totally disagree. Our current options are already hoof it upfield when under pressure just to get it straight back. Long kicks from the keeper against a tall opposition defence or team in general, come straight back. We end up on the back foot for long periods of play as it is. All I'm suggesting is an option to that to get us out of what we sit back and take. Against a decent team we are generally ripped apart because we have no alternative, no plan B,C or D. Just hoof it. It ends up in our net.

    Report this comment

    Bootneck R.M.

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Bootneck, I see where you're coming from, I think it's more of a problem to do with the fact that we don't get runners from midfield when the ball is played long. That and I would hate to criticize him but Holt is only just 6ft1 and I don't think is the best target man, the ball doesn't often stick to him and doesn't seem to terrorize defenders as a lone striker. 2 strikers would provide that pressure IMO, we were very much a long ball and route one team under Lambert, difference was we were much more active and attacking ready to pick up the second ball on the run.

    Report this comment

    Billy

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Iv'e been a big critic of Bunn who has cost us a couple of points earlier on,but in the last 2 games "the boy done well" and has won 2 points for us.It's not his fault that he is short of a couple of inches(height I mean) Thats down to his parents not eating enough carrots.Keep it up Bunny boy.OTBC

    Report this comment

    irongloves

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Anyone know why Morison isn't in the Leeds squad today

    Report this comment

    Lobbo

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Yes, I watched it all unfold on the big screen yesterday, kicking almost every ball....Most of the contributors on here look at the Norwich point of view only. Just for a moment let us put on the shoes of an opposing manager...... “Right lads, it's Norwich today...They only have ONE style of play.....Just make sure of two important points....Left Back, you will be marking Snodgrass. Make sure you guide him down the line and prevent him from turning inside... .He can't cross with his right foot so the best he can hope for is a corner....Right Back, you do exactly the same with Pilkington.... Centreback, just kick the living daylights out of Holt. That's them taken care of.”

    Report this comment

    Pa Snipps

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • "We'll win again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll win again, some sunny day"....."We want Whooton out! Say we want Whooton out!!" All together now GedFans, it's time to sort out this shambles. Warm wishes Ged.

    Report this comment

    Ged Steroo

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Billy @ are you not just saying Holt is not up to it and found his level in the Championship. Too much time diving (as he always did) and probably too many burgers!!

    Report this comment

    Laughalot

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Dubai Canary

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Fluked that one? We worked our socks off for that point and could have had all 3. What game were you watching?

    Report this comment

    CanaryWest

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Did anyone see the BBC website interview with Hughton? Very interesting to hear him talking about us playing 2 up front now we have signed Becchio.

    Report this comment

    CanaryWest

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • next up in Fulham and that has to be a solid 3 Point banker for City. Our results last season were against there were 1-1 at Home and we lost 1-2 Away. Then we started off this season asleep and were drubbed 5-0. Let put this miserable run to bed, play two up front and lets look for a big an much needed Home Win against Fulham. OTBC

    Report this comment

    Dubai Canary

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • You see, Billy. Sensible and well-considered constructive criticism draws out the trolls. But the spite they spew is nullified by the fact you`ve already said it, sans the crassness.

    Report this comment

    Mad Brewer

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Brewer, i close the sight altogether after every post then open it up again. It works for me.

    Report this comment

    MARK SPRINGALL

    Monday, February 4, 2013

  • No reason why City cannot keep ahead of the likes of Wigan and Aston Villa, who are seven points behind us with 13 games left. (QPR have paid the penalty and are too far back!) I can see big changes in the summer. Billy names Holt, Fox, Surman, Tierney and Jackson. Grant may be the only one of the five still playing for City next season. His role will become less over time. Hughton suggested after the QPR game that City could play two (Holt and Becchio) up front. Will depend on who we are playing and whether it is a home game or not etc. Let Fulham manager Martin Jol guess whether we will play one or two up front on Saturday.

    Report this comment

    Capri

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Something else we need to consider besides the issues discussed: We are totting up quite a few yellow cards, many unnecessarily. We are in danger of losing key players due to the totting up system. Yes the point ws invaluable, especially as NONE of the bottom 8 teams lost. Our buffer to the bottom 3??? 7 points...that could just melt away if the teams below us continue to put in winning performances.

    Report this comment

    Algarve Canary

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Bootneck, playing out the back is much more difficult than the theory of it, and if teams know that's your intentions then they'll press you very high up, which can end up in bad back-passes or hoofs upfield, thus achieving nothing. It can be good if worked on for a long time i.e Swansea after R. Martinez gave them that way of playing, however doing it and being new is a very dangerous game, can lead to unwanted pressure. By going long from the keeper the game gets balance, with pressure on the ball from both sides the headers can't always have accuracy, thus giving balance with the ball generally heading to the midfield for a 50-50 chance of possession, long story short, it's balanced and safer for us to go long.

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    Billy

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • I thought that was a typical timid tactical show from Hughton BUT perhaps it is worth dropping two point to deny all three to QPR so his negativity may be justified. What else can we learn from today: 1. Hoolahan cannot volley with the outside of his left foot, 2. Playing Little Bennett on the left wing is as effective as having him sell programmes. 3. Garrido is fading fast and played the best through ball of the day at the wrong end 4. Bassong although superb made his usual single stupid mistake (the short pass to Garrido). I thought Bradley Johnson was excellent today as was Snodgrass. On the subject of Snoddy, can we get him some heading lessons please along with right foot kicking lessons for Wes. Michael Turner also needs a mention, very solid today.

    Report this comment

    waclor

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • Billy @ are you not just saying Holt is not up to it and found his level in the Championship. Too much time diving (as he always did) and probably too many burgers!!

    Report this comment

    Laughalot

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Grant covers an amazing amount of the pitch for Norwich and whereas the Hughton system is not good for him, or any striker who measures himself on the number of goals scored, he does a good job at it. For any team to play those tactics and score more than a few goals, it would have to have a brilliant striker (eg Van Persie) and midfield players who can get forward and are good finishers (eg Lampard). The system also needs a plan B for when you need to retrieve a point from a losing position or win a deadlocked game. I hope Hughton has only adopted this style of play as a stopgap measure as he saw it as the best way to survive this season. Let's hope it's this year survive and next year thrive.

    Report this comment

    waclor

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Billy, I think that it must be dispiriting for Holt, because the currency of strikers is goals. However I think that the main problem is not getting the people in and around him. When he played at his best he always had a Jackson, a Morrison or a Martin alongside him with Wes in behind. Our approach then was to try and win at all costs and I do think that there is a tension, both amongst the old Lambert players and the fans, with the more defensive approach which focuses on shape under Hughton. I wonder how many of Lambert's players will remain after the summer.

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    Preston Canary

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • Well done lads. Much more commitment than our last away game. A well deserved point and so close to all 3. That performance has give me real heart once again.

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    CanaryWest

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

  • P.S. Swiss, he is still a hero in my book too, just as Iwan Roberts is. Both players had their faults, but both gave it plenty for the cause. Holt has not become a bad player, it is just that I do not think he suits the system that Hughton wants to play.

    Report this comment

    Preston Canary

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • What the...what the....what the...

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    Mad Brewer

    Sunday, February 3, 2013

  • I have to say that Bunn was superb again, maybe he's starting to settle at last. Bassong gave what we have come to expect, another solid performance. There were some periods of hoof the ball and absolutely diabolical passing that just kept the pressure coming back on us. We don't have someone with that command in the middle that turns defence into attack. When we're on top as a team we'll do it but we need someone who can turn it round, hold it up, make the clinical pass out of defence and give the back four or ten a break. For the life of me I can never understand the mentality of a keeper kicking every ball long into a midfield or defence who have better air power. Again, a middle man with the right qualities will allow us to play out of our half. Happy with a point though, better than QPR getting three.

    Report this comment

    Bootneck R.M.

    Saturday, February 2, 2013

The views expressed in the above comments do not necessarily reflect the views of this site

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